tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post2793126880115539370..comments2023-03-23T01:16:53.418+01:00Comments on The Overseer: Ramblings: learning more from losing?Lamoronhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05679343892043130513noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-8297992418286038602012-03-19T10:12:35.196+01:002012-03-19T10:12:35.196+01:00I received a PM I think will add something to the ...I received a PM I think will add something to the discussion as well. I've asked permission to translate and post it, but I think I understand the essence of his PM.<br /><br />"In my job I work with success vs. defeat. We try to provide our clients with tiny measures of success, guiding them in the right direction. It's strange but the mind remembers defeat more readily than success, and confidence is a good thing. The right challenge at the right time is what you need in order to learn the most"Lamoronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679343892043130513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-28239186081125206582012-03-18T14:50:09.616+01:002012-03-18T14:50:09.616+01:00Silly wall street example now removed from the pos...Silly wall street example now removed from the post :)Lamoronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679343892043130513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-6511480697358458822012-03-18T10:53:11.666+01:002012-03-18T10:53:11.666+01:00Fair enough, I just wish that you'd have said ...Fair enough, I just wish that you'd have said that without the hyperbole and silly wall street examples.<br /><br />"You learn more from losing" is, maybe not that obviously, loaded with assumptions. When I say it, I do assume that the losing player uses the experiences to better themselves, and that the player is aware of the situation so that it is not a permanent state.<br /><br />After hearing you elaborate your position, I can see where we might have "gone wrong". I think we agree on most points, albeit not the delivery of said ;)Bo Bjerregaardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12029335105703377538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-51663783277027518132012-03-17T11:43:54.150+01:002012-03-17T11:43:54.150+01:00Exhausted Brain is difficult to overcome :)
It mi...Exhausted Brain is difficult to overcome :)<br /><br />It might not be clear from my article, but I do write "you can learn a lot from the occasional defeat, but only if you work hard at it" which is exactly what you did.<br /><br />My issue is with the idea as a whole, that you automatically learn something from being beaten. I don't think I would have a problem if it was rephrased to "you can learn more from losing", as it takes some real effort on the players part.<br /><br />/LamoronLamoronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679343892043130513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-48593247908872341472012-03-17T10:14:20.042+01:002012-03-17T10:14:20.042+01:00I tend to agree with Hjelmen - there is a point in...I tend to agree with Hjelmen - there is a point in loosing if you make right conclusions afterwards.<br /><br />When I came to my first tournament I lost every game. What I did is analyzing my mistakes, both in list building and acting during the game. Next tourney I attended I came second - and had a decent chance to win if only my brain hasn't shut down due to exhaustion during the final game.Stas Shilovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13077710262432283064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-48567599564125180832012-03-15T11:24:32.937+01:002012-03-15T11:24:32.937+01:00Simple is better :DSimple is better :DLamoronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679343892043130513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-61527243011998548472012-03-15T11:10:32.793+01:002012-03-15T11:10:32.793+01:00I can recognize a lot of this stuff from myself. I...I can recognize a lot of this stuff from myself. I think I'm there where I mostly loose, but every once in a while get a win. This might be a bit exaggerated and depends upon who I play. Against my most regular opponent I think I win every third or fourth game or so. It's not totally demoralizing, but often I feel like my wins are pretty random, as I always have a hard time to figure out what to do when I play. It's hard for me to come up with a solid plan for my turn depending on my opponents turn. In the past I've been using vast amounts of time thinking about this in my turn, but to no real use. My newest way of playing instead, is to just think up something simple without thinking too much about the consequences, playing my turns a lot faster. I'm not sure what to do to get a better overview of the game and playing Cryx, but playing faster like this is something different for me :) My hopes are that I'll learn more and get better by doing this instead :)duskernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05727504976370798027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-27674939686010891872012-03-15T09:03:14.405+01:002012-03-15T09:03:14.405+01:00That's interesting because I don't see peo...That's interesting because I don't see people picking up a lot of pointers from losing, and certainly not in our meta. I completely agree that your theory holds true if the person has the ability to ignore the negative spiral, but I don't think many of us do (I sure don't).<br /><br />Besides the obvious examples like the horrible Menoth & Cygnar discussions we've had on the Danish forums lately, and the Khador talks every Monday that never come up with any workable solutions, I could mention the statement "I don't need upkeep removal" from a veteran with around ten times the number of games I have.<br /><br />The current score between us is 13-3 in my favor, with one game being my worst match-up in the Terminus challenge (and I was severely dice raped there), and at least half the games have been won by my upkeep removal. I'll bet you 10 bucks that one game he wins by having upkeep removal will do more to change that attitude than 100 games where he loses by not having it.<br /><br />Finally this article wasn't aimed at complete rookies, but I feel they might benefit more from reading a book instead. If they don't know how a charge works they certainly won't be learning much beyond basic rules, which could be taught without playing and causing them to experience yet another loss :)<br /><br />/LamoronLamoronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679343892043130513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1997098707071687242.post-55832123670984887942012-03-14T16:15:40.839+01:002012-03-14T16:15:40.839+01:00I disagree with most of the sentiment in this arti...I disagree with most of the sentiment in this article, but I have a feeling that might be because of differing definitions and a lot of implicit points in the "you learn more by losing"-statement.<br /><br />Losing does teach you more, but only if you adopt, adapt and improve and thus "try something new". When you win, great! You did it right; all the more power to you, but the learning points will be that much harder to pick up on.<br /><br />The other thing that you gingerly step around, is the fact that "learning more by losing" is not something to live by forever; you shift away from it naturally once you settle into a groove that suits you and where you're able to adopt, adapt and improve, rather than being so green (n00bs, for the 1337-inclined) that you need the learning experiences of an abject failure rather than the dizzying highs of a battle well-won. Sometimes the player will need to shift this view consciously, and disregard the "wisdom" of his peers, and at other times it will come naturally.<br /><br />All it boils down to is that "maybe you should try something new" is implicit in "you learn more by losing", until the point where you're comfortable enough with the game that you can adopt, adapt and improve freely. And telling a new player that he should just "try something new" because he's losing, when doesn't even know the rules for charging, well, that's just asinine.Bo Bjerregaardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12029335105703377538noreply@blogger.com