Today the Colossals were unveiled. They look fantastic, they're impressive like hell, and I hope they suck worse than the Battle Engines. That's right I hope they suck so bad that every sold model ends up on display where they belong.
This very thing happened in Warhammer 40.000, and Apocalypse games were a complete disaster with no applications beyond showing off all your gear once a year. The Super-Heavy vehicles were showpieces around here, because introducing an Ork Stompa to a regular game was like dropping a nuke on a group of pygmy archers, and Apocalypse quickly became a question of "buying" your victory.
Now hold on, nobody knows how the Colossals will turn out! I know that, but it's almost impossible to make them work, because the huge machines clash with a very basic part of the game: Points Cost.
If the Colossals are no more powerful than a Heavy Warjack, then there's no point at all in making them. This is what happened with Battle Engines, and while some of them actually work on the battlefield, they require a mountain of new rules while introducing almost nothing interesting. I'd take another standard release any day, and preferably one that doesn't require more rules in an already complicated game.
If the Colossals are more powerful than Heavy Warjacks, then they will need to cost more. If they cost more they become "objectives" in the games, where "destroy the opponents Colossal" is the key to winning/losing. This is the Apocalypse problem all over again, and logically impossible to circumvent without making the Colossals cheaper and worse (guess what happened to the Battle Engines).
The Jack/Beast casters will reign supreme. Think about eKaya with a stealth Colossal that teleports, Mortenebra with a Terminal Velocity Overrun Kraken, or simply pIrusk with Superiority on the Conquest. There's nothing to do but wait and see, but at least PP figured out that big expensive models on 120 mm bases need big guns to work, and gave the Kraken the mother of them.
This very thing happened in Warhammer 40.000, and Apocalypse games were a complete disaster with no applications beyond showing off all your gear once a year. The Super-Heavy vehicles were showpieces around here, because introducing an Ork Stompa to a regular game was like dropping a nuke on a group of pygmy archers, and Apocalypse quickly became a question of "buying" your victory.
Now hold on, nobody knows how the Colossals will turn out! I know that, but it's almost impossible to make them work, because the huge machines clash with a very basic part of the game: Points Cost.
If the Colossals are no more powerful than a Heavy Warjack, then there's no point at all in making them. This is what happened with Battle Engines, and while some of them actually work on the battlefield, they require a mountain of new rules while introducing almost nothing interesting. I'd take another standard release any day, and preferably one that doesn't require more rules in an already complicated game.
If the Colossals are more powerful than Heavy Warjacks, then they will need to cost more. If they cost more they become "objectives" in the games, where "destroy the opponents Colossal" is the key to winning/losing. This is the Apocalypse problem all over again, and logically impossible to circumvent without making the Colossals cheaper and worse (guess what happened to the Battle Engines).
In case it works
The Jack/Beast casters will reign supreme. Think about eKaya with a stealth Colossal that teleports, Mortenebra with a Terminal Velocity Overrun Kraken, or simply pIrusk with Superiority on the Conquest. There's nothing to do but wait and see, but at least PP figured out that big expensive models on 120 mm bases need big guns to work, and gave the Kraken the mother of them.
I could not agree more. Btw really enjoy your blog. I don't play cryx but reading about your thought processes and ideas encourages me to think outside the box with Cygnar and Trollbloods. Keep up the good work!
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure about this. I remain optimistic. I look at the colossal release the same way I looked at Epic Warcasters, Calvary and ranked officers.
ReplyDeleteJust another model type to add a bit of flavor to the game. I don't mention Battle Engines because I do think they dropped the ball on them. None of them were appealing to me, or even interesting.
That being said I'll consider the Colossals a success if they can be integrated in a similar fashion to that of Calvary. Different model type, some different rules, and we may even find some different roles for them once we start playing with them.
I am not one to blindly suggest PP knows what they're doing, because whilst they are better at it than GW rules-wise, there are still some stinkers.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I feel we need to approach Colossals, theoretically, to be the armoured response to infantrymachine. Whilst not as prevalent as it used to be, people are increasingly returning to infantry simply because they know how to use it instead of trying different things.
Thus, I suggest, that Colossals will be really good at destroying infantry, but will lack the ability to do impressive damage to heavies, simply due to poor speed and maneouvering.
We understand they basically have thresher, and they all have big guns, but they don't have particularly interesting nor powerful-looking stabby bits.
They will, operationally, shoot with like RNG 16" guns with 4" AOEs, fire once or twice, absolutely wreck infantry lines, and if they actually get into range they will thresher everything with 4" reach.
I also imagine they only have one melee weapon, which is pillow-fisted, just enough to destroy shield-walled infantry .
Finally, I imagine they'll be 15 points or so, SPD 5 for the highest, and will ultimately not be used because everyone prefers playing Deneghra2 and the Deathjack only.
If that happens, PP just wasted another mountain of time and effort that could have been used elsewhere. I've seen Privateer Press pull some fancy things (no way did I think reinforcements was going to work), but interactive objectives, Battle Engines, and now Colossals are doomed to failure.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking forward to seeing a 100 dollar model with questionable rules that nobody in their right mind would use in a tournament. If I get a viable ranged model in the 10-12 point price range, then maybe I'll force myself to ignore the fact that a character Leviathan would have been the simple answer, and roll with it :D
I don't think they'll be that bad. I'll probably be unaffected, especially since as a Cryx player, I don't really go for infantry-grinding. Assassination is the game, and since I primarily play Witch Coven, I don't see much need to support the huge thing (I have far more important Occultation, Ghostly, and Infernal Machine targets).
DeleteI'm going to keep my cards close to my chest regarding my opinion, though. Battle engines are mediocre because they're overbalanced, they can kill stuff effectively but they can't slaughter through a ton of stuff. Colossals will probably be that, too. They probably have a sub-cortex rule, and the ability to dish out a lot of firepower whilst slaughtering through infantry MAY make me more keen on fielding one.
I don't play PoM, but I might still buy their colossal because I grew up watching Battletech.
Infantry is not on the rise because people are unimaginative, its because jacks suck. They drain resources from your caster and are a massive pts. investment for one model. With infantry I can get a unit that can take down both infantry and heavier targets for the same cost, unlike jacks who typically either crush high ARM or take out infantry. But this is only true of Warmachine.
ReplyDeleteHordes on the other hand is not seeing a lot of infantry, Beast heavy armies like Circle and Legion have never been better. Beasts are so far superior to Jacks in almost every way, they are faster, hit harder and can put out more damage. They don't have to give up an arm to have a ranged weapon and you can max fury every turn with little consequence due to the excellent fury management available to almost all Hordes armies. This is why you never see jacks anymore, not because people are mindless drones who can only play with their preferred combo, but because the only logical choice for most Warmachine armies is to bring mostly infantry.
Oh and everyone knows Nightmare and eDenny is a much better combo.
"but at least PP figured out that big expensive models on 120 mm bases need big guns to work, and gave the Kraken the mother of them."
ReplyDeleteAny info on the gun they gave the Kraken? :)
Nope, but long barrels usually means long range, and it looks like a non-AoE high POW gun to me, possibly with special rules allowing for something like AP.
DeleteThat's 100% speculation of course, but it seems like a mix of all the crab-jacks. It's got a Leviathan type gun, and a secondary gun (Harrower type?), and possibly some Desecrator type cloud generation.
I'm looking forward to see what it can do, but I don't have high hopes for anything useful. But I agree with you on the big guns theory. It's a bit unpractical having a purely melee model on such a large base /:
ReplyDelete