Tuesday, November 15, 2011

Motivation level: 0

Character restriction is really getting to me. I don't do well with long days of gaming, since my attention wavers after my second game, so I need Terminus to do well in tournaments with three or four games in a day (which is all of them).

I spend a lot of my time considering combinations, thinking about synergies, calculating averages, and it's a huge part of my tabletop results (and probably why this Blog is even worth reading), but now I'm stuck with two options. The first one is to bring Terminus and nothing else, and the second is to keep crunching lists until something clicks, which is going really fucking poorly so far.

Every time I find something I could run, or a combination I would find interesting, I look at Terminus and go "oh well, Darragh/Madelyn/Tartarus/WSC are occupied elsewhere". Most really interesting options require either Bane Thralls (to make up for poor hitting power), or the Withershadow Combine (Focus economy, and vulnerability to one failed roll), so character restrictions are going to make my lists incredibly boring.

I'm furious that my tournament participation will require me to field boring lists every fucking game if I want to do well, and my motivation for thinking about new and interesting things to do with Cryx is currently zero. I've been considering infidelity, but the models that appeal to me in other factions are either poor, or require a level of understanding I don't have (and the problem won't change, just because the factions does).


  1. I dont see the problem. There are sill loads of choices in the book and when you factor in the mercs and minions there are even more.

    Dont get me wrong. I don't like the restrictions either.

    But i see it as a challenge to make a list without BLT, Gerlak, WSC, Gorman, DJ....

    Reanalyze casters/jacks/solos.. Find new combos and laugh in the face of restrictions.

  2. It is a challenge to make a list without characters, but the way I look at it, is that I got into Warmachine to play Warmachine, not some other game created by tournament restrictions.

    That is why I am upset with the character restrictions, and it really can be compared to comp in 40k which affects everyone differently. One of the reasons why I switched over was to play a game with a good rules set that doesn't restrict what you can take. While some might like character restricted formats, it is absurd to make it the standard for local steamrollers.

    I personally won't participate in it as I won't enjoy not being able to play with what I want.

  3. Why are "... Darragh/Madelyn/Tartarus/WSC ..." so integral non-boring lists for you?

  4. Not exactly a Cryx expert but can't you have to viable and fairly diverse lists one being Terminus with your listed neccessities and the other being eSkarre who is okay without those specific peices AFAIK and make her list DJ+Battlegroup stuff / Raider Rush?

    That would present an exiting conundrum at list selection and give you two different lists to choose from.

    I am kind of a big deal in my local meta ;D and even I have to phone it in with a brainless list now and then.

  5. Eisenhorn: The problem is, that I don't like Gerlack, Gorman, or the Deathjack... If models are so problematic that we need a restriction on them, then it's time to nerf them instead.

    The Jake: Exactly.

    Went Aqwer: Tartarus is required for Bane Thralls, which are required to apply Dark Shroud around the field, and deliver the punch my funny lists always lack.

    Darragh Wrathe allows for movement shenanigans, and Madelyn does the same. This allows all kinds of models to start working, like Machine Wraiths that can possess from 12" away, Necrotechs that can create Scrap Thralls in the middle of armies etc. etc. etc.

    WSC allows free upkeeps, ranged attacks, and makes strange combinations more likely to work with their reroll.

  6. Chris: I could, but my point has always been, that I don't like p/eSkarre. It would also mean that just about every Cryx player in existance would have p/eSkarre as a backup caster, which would be boring as hell.

  7. My perspective on it is that character restrictions are there to help balance out Warmachine against Hordes, as most Hordes armies are much lighter on characters, and those characters seem to find their way into every list (Molik Karn, Typhon, Lord of the Feast).

    I don't think character restrictions are all that bad, having played in a team tournament that had them. We even had to bring three lists, playing each one once. It ended up not being a big deal for anyone there and I think you're really exaggerating the problem.

    In fact, the all-Cryx team ended up taking 2nd place, and this was the oldest team tournament on the East Coast. Try playing different lists and you'll find that it's really not as bad as you think.

  8. There are other casters that can work without your favorites. Not just the Skarres, what about your coven list? Dos it have to have WSC, Darragh, Tart, Madelyn. Can it not be trolls, blood witches, bile thralls, Black bane, Raiders, etc...

    If you are in such a dire need of dark shroud just bring along Ragman.

    Latley (before sr2012) i have left WSC and Tartout of my listes. I found that they where a crutch and i was leaning to heavily on it. My meat also got really god at taking them out. So i decided to mix it up and leave my crutch at home.

    Now my new favorites are raiders, witches and trolls.

  9. Having read (and participated in) a lot of discussions on character restrictions, I think my conclusion is that it is opposed mainly on the background of local (or national) meta.

    The danish Warmachine community is almost entirely balking at the fact that character restrictions are baseline in SR12. There are many factors to this, but some include the fact that we have a _lot_ of new players who are hurt by this because they cannot duplicate models. Another issue is the "Reinforcements" complication, which also force players to own more models in order to participate.

    "Mature" communities can easily gather up a lot of players that can participate in face of the restrictions; a very small one (such as ours) cannot.

    @Lamoron: If it is any consolation, then I can promise you that DM12 will be using the Characters Unrestricted appendix option, and I will encourage the TO's of the qualifiers to do the same!

  10. And before you jump at me: when I say "cannot duplicate models", I obviously mean "cannot duplicate _characters_" :)

  11. You, good Sir Hjelm, have become my personal hero.

  12. It surely sounds like a stupid idea and I guess I will end up using Legion if I end up making my tournament debut somewhere in the near future. Not only are most of the models I got through bartertown painted, the faction itself typically fields less models than my WM faction (cryx) and you can cook up 2 lists not wanting to use the same FA:C model quite easily.

    Can't understand how PP thinks SR2012 will sell tournament gaming to the huge influx of players they got 2011.

    1. New players tend to be playing slower, if not they make far more errors than they normally would do.

    2. Depending on their buying policy so far, they may end with an enforced model stock increase. Which either keeps them from giving tournaments a try to delay their debut, unless they can spend cash on the hobby without getting a waking with the frying pan from their girlfriend or wife.

    What's the typical point size used at a steam-roller event? 50 Points?

    Let's say a cryx greenhorn has followed the typical battlecollege or PP board advice and bought DJ+banes with UA and tart after his first battle box games. Not only are we talking about 180$ (or ~110 pound for a EU gamer buying from the UK webstores)of cash spend on models he can't use in both lists, those models are also gobbling up roughly half of the points for a typical SR list. At minimum he needs to replace those 21-23 (depending on caster) points, or shoot for a whole other second list that just swaps the caster and a solo or two.

    Really no smart move, esp. since turning an appendix option into the new standard for SR tournaments will lead to most organizers using them for the majority of their events, unless they are against restrictions on principle.