Saturday, January 28, 2012

Overpowered: The definitive answer

Every week someone comes complaining about Cryx on the forums, and every week the arguments end the same way. Now we all know that it'll never end, so this post is just supposed to be an answer we can link every time this topic comes up.

Rankings HQ has a lot of statistics, and below you'll find a compilation made by Maou_Mint here, detailing the Faction tournament wins for 2011, as registered on Ranking HQ.
  • Legion: 16
  • Khador: 9
  • Trollbloods: 9
  • Skorne: 7
  • Circle: 6
  • Cygnar: 6
  • Cryx: 6
  • Retribution: 6
  • Menoth: 4
  • Mercenaries: 4
  • Minions: 3
Mercenaries and Minions are not powerful choices (no surprise there). Menoth falls into the same category, which I think has a lot to do with the predictability of the faction in general. Everyone knows how to dismantle a Menoth list, even if it's pretty hard to do at times.

Skorne, Circle, Cygnar, Cryx, and Retribution are all pretty much equal. Khador and Trollbloods are durable and forgiving factions, which is a combination that always does well in tournaments, so it's not unexpected to see them slightly ahead.

Legion on the other hand, is supposed to be a tricky finesse list, which should not do so well in tournament settings, and having almost double the wins of any other faction should be an indication that something needs tweaking but: that something is not Cryx.
If you're having trouble with Cryx it's your own problem. Cryx does not dominate everything, and is in fact placed squarely in the middle when it comes to tournament wins. The reason you're having trouble is because you can't beat Cryx without understanding Cryx. Become a better player, and Cryx will stop being a problem.


  1. To be fair, the results depend on those who report them. For example, according to that site, there are more UK players of WM/H than there are in the US - clearly a fallacy. If this site was universally used, then I'd say that your argument would have more merit.

    That said, I don't think that Cryx are broken or overpowered, but neither do I think that Legion is either. I think that you have a really small sample site and it's unevenly weighted by country.

  2. I don't think the US players are radically different from the UK players (or any other players for that matter). I doubt you could really tell UK/US games apart, so I don't think that invalidates the data at all.

    I don't think Legion is overpowered either. I think Legion is a faction with plenty of tricks (like Cryx) and the ability to shrug of a few mistakes (like Khador and Trollbloods), which makes it a very good tournament faction.

    There's also the very real possibility that Wrath & Domination will change this balance, and I'm very much looking forward to next years data. I'm working on getting the danish community to join up at Rankings, since more data = more accurate data.

  3. Well I know that for 40k the metas are very different for game systems like 40k and Fantasy. For example, during the Storm of Magic campaign, the Wood Elves and Vampire Counts were towards the top of the list in the UK/Europe but were near the bottom in the US. You'd be surprised at the kinds of differences can come about just from army popularity, let alone playstyle. I know that my particular meta favors Cryx, Circle, and Menoth, for example, but I know that's not the case in other parts of the country where Khador and Cygnar are king, for example.

    I don't know exactly what kind of impact the region will have (if any), I just worry that the data are not representative of the tournament scene in general. Also, it depends upon the scale, as Masters Tournaments are more challenging than your normal Steam Roller tournaments (requiring qualifiers and a certain number of players). For example, at Lock and Load this year, first and second place both went to Skorne players. Also, the Hardcore format will result in different statistics as well, and Rankings HQ does not really differentiate the quality of the tournament, only the quantity of wins at said tournaments.

  4. I agree completely. In little old Denmark there's a world of difference between cities located no more than 30 miles apart. It would be lovely if every country and every player contributed data to one site, but currently the data is based on around 930 players, which means somewhere between 50-100 groups, with the majority being British or Australian.

    If you have some collected data on the US tournaments I'd love to see them though, because as you've said a few times: more data equals more reliable results. I never thought about Hardcore tournaments being included in the statistics, but that could explain the high number of Legion wins.

  5. Been a while since this was posted. Any chance of an updated version in the near future?